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1 Anonymous January 6 2013, 13:08
Laura,

Another interesting piece - it would be good if you could quote your sources - i.e. which sites you visited to gather this information.

The John/Jim story at the end sounds untypical - is this internet folklore ? It also highlights that bribery from local officials allows such people to come and work here. In all places, not just KZ, there are bad apples - local and expat alike.

Remember also that it's unwise to group all expats together - we are not a unifed bunch of people with similar views. It's important I feel to not tar all with the 'expats are bad overpaid people' tag - some of the quotes above show a brighter more balanced side, but as usual, using public forums on the web only shows a minority view - people tend to moan and vent on the web.

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2 Anonymous January 8 2013, 10:12
"Another interesting piece - it would be good if you could quote your sources - i.e. which sites you visited to gather this information." - good idea
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3 * * * January 8 2013, 16:29
Deleted by moderator.

4 Anonymous January 8 2013, 17:17
Anonymous

Remember also that it's unwise to group all expats together - we are not a unifed bunch of people with similar views. It's important I feel to not tar all with the 'expats are bad overpaid people' tag - some of the quotes above show a brighter more balanced side, but as usual, using public forums on the web only shows a minority view - people tend to moan and vent on the web.


Folks, if you spoke Russian good enough to read forums etc, you wouldn't find this article surprising.
Of course, rules of journalism require sources, but in this case the story reflects public attitude to foreigners.

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5 * * * January 8 2013, 17:23
Deleted by moderator.

6 * * * January 8 2013, 17:24
Deleted by moderator.

7 Anonymous January 8 2013, 17:42
Please find the links below:

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g616030-r21664407-Atyrau_Atyrau_Province.html

http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Asia/Kazakhstan/Atyrau_Oblysy/Atyrau-1238722/Warnings_or_Dangers-Atyrau-TG-C-1.html

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8 * * * January 8 2013, 17:45
Deleted by moderator.

9 Anonymous January 8 2013, 18:01
Perhaps West Kazakhstan Today needs to get some new reporters; perople who actually report rather than cutting and pasting carefully selected information from internet blogs?
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10 Anonymous January 8 2013, 18:29
The comments can be found on various expat websites and tripadvisor.

The article is very sad and does not reflect well on expats. Comments regarding the lack of food types is quite ridiculous when these expats should have experience of working in places like Lagos and Riyadh, these expats should not be here.

We can not deny some of the things in the article were true although I feel that some of the comments in the Russian version are ridiculous. I was the only single expat who worked for my small company and I was often the object of ridicule from Kazakh men for not taking 'advantage' while other non-single expats did, so I do sense some hypocrisy, was there some ulterior motive to this? However, I had the respect to not hassle the girls from traditional families nor entertain girls who were simply interested in my wallet.

I worked hard 8-9 months a year, 7 days a week both offshore and onshore and to train and develop the local staff to do a very specialist job, I did not own the company, I was just an employee. Failing an allowance for working away, I was paid less than the local staff. I did not have time for a social life in Atyrau and because my company was small I had to rely on local taxis and lived on my own in a privately rented apartment block with other Kazakh families. I did my best to develop the office so responsibility could be transferred to the locals and that I could leave, hoping that more work could be acquired, more staff could be employed and it would contribute the local economy and the local staff would earn the pay increases they deserved to increase their quality of life. If I was there for financial benefit and whatever other extracurricular activities have been mentioned, then surely I would have ensured my stay in Atyrau was as long as possible.

What was so wrong with what I did? Unlike people who come to places like England with no qualifications and live off government hand outs because they have no job, I thought I as a guest in your country I was making a worthwhile contribut

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11 Anonymous January 8 2013, 19:50
если вы такие правильные что же не поставите своих друзей на место или думайте что мы люди второго сорта( наверняка думайте) пускай ведут себя прилично и отшивают продажных девок не надо винить продажную власть за собой тоже смотрите
25   24

12 * * * January 8 2013, 20:04
Deleted by moderator.

13 Anonymous January 9 2013, 12:51
[quote]Anonymous
The comments can be found on various expat websites and tripadvisor.

The article is very sad and does not reflect well on expats. Comments regarding the lack of food types is quite ridiculous when these expats should have experience of working in places like Lagos and Riyadh, these expats should not be here.

We can not deny some of the things in the article were true although I feel that some of the comments in the Russian version are ridiculous. I was the only single expat who worked for my small company and I was often the object of ridicule from Kazakh men for not taking 'advantage' while other non-single expats did, so I do sense some hypocrisy, was there some ulterior motive to this? However, I had the respect to not hassle the girls from traditional families nor entertain girls who were simply interested in my wallet.

I worked hard 8-9 months a year, 7 days a week both offshore and onshore and to train and develop the local staff to do a very specialist job, I did not own the company, I was just an employee. Failing an allowance for working away, I was paid less than the local staff. I did not have time for a social life in Atyrau and because my company was small I had to rely on local taxis and lived on my own in a privately rented apartment block with other Kazakh families. I did my best to develop the office so responsibility could be transferred to the locals and that I could leave, hoping that more work could be acquired, more staff could be employed and it would contribute the local economy and the local staff would earn the pay increases they deserved to increase their quality of life. If I was there for financial benefit and whatever other extracurricular activities have been mentioned, then surely I would have ensured my stay in Atyrau was as long as possible.

What was so wrong with what I did? Unlike people who come to places like England with no qualifications and live off government hand outs because they have no job, I thought I as a guest in your country I was makin

26   26

14 Anonymous January 9 2013, 13:24
The expat poster with his long tale of how noble he was during his time in Atyrau misses the point rather. The article is one of a long line of anti-expat articles by the local press. There rarely seems to be any balanced reporting when it comes to the subject of foreign involvement in Atyrau.

Generally foreign workers come to Atyrau for the challenge of the work and to progress their careers with interesting and relevant experience. The majority work hard to help train their local staff and move on to a new assignment. Few relish the idea of remaining here once they have achieved their professional goals and contributed what they can. It is not a very hospitable environment for foreigners and without a decent salary and accommodation it would be very hard to attract good quality people.

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15 Anonymous January 9 2013, 15:16
Anonymous

It is not a very hospitable environment for foreigners and without a decent salary and accommodation it would be very hard to attract good quality people.


Than what about us, local people, who were born here and living here. And working at the same positions as expats but earning 10 times less. And also have to pay taxes, fees, rent etc. Also the living prices here are very high comparing to other regions of Kazakhstan. And this is because of the uncomparably high salary rates of minority living here including expats and those who work for foreign companies. What can the majority of native local people here do, who are literally surviving not living on their motherland. Who can they blame? Don't say about our corrupt government. We all know it still living with outcomes of Soviet era reign.

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16 * * * January 9 2013, 15:32
Deleted by moderator.

17 Anonymous January 9 2013, 17:58
When the expats leave after they have achieved their goals, then in theory the locals should be filling these positions. This should lead to higher salaries and potentially the experience gained could lead to employment opportunities outside of Kazakhstan. These expats should not be blamed if this is not happening when they are contributing and trying to benefit your country as guests.

Most smaller foreign companies have quite strict work permit regulations imposed on them and if these are not achieved then the work permits are not renewed. Each year these vary from reducing expat employees down to 1 or 2 people or ensuring that all employees have achieved additional professional qualifications over the year.

If we find other people to blame other than the government then maybe we look at companies like Agip and TCO and how they run, but when you speak to expats working for these companies passing on technical expertise then you will be surprised how poorly even the expats regard these companies. Replacing them overnight is not going to happen and we have to rely on the good people in these companies to try and change the way these companies work at the very high risk of an irate Italian or American sending you on the next flight back to Amsterdam, a threat the senior managers use often to expatriate workers if they are unable to solve unsolvable problems the senior managers themselves are responsible for creating.

I sympathise with your situation and can not believe how expensive Atyrau is compared to towns and small cities in Europe where the rents are more than half cheaper and the salaries are much higher. We can only hope that the contribution we make does at the end of the day bear fruit for people of Kazakhstan.

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18 Anonymous January 9 2013, 21:04
Some intelligent debate and comment above - also lots of 'deleted by moderator' comments :)

Regarding high prices in Atyrau, this is indeed true - it is also true that local salaries in Atyrau (if you work for TCO or AgipKCO etc.) are higher than 'similar' salaries in other towns and cities in KZ. Taxes are also very low compared to US or Europe.

And yes, a beer in Champions (for example) is very expensive - a similar beer can be drunk in a good 'local' bar for many tenge cheaper.

Let us also dispel the myth that expats all earn 'a 1000 $'s a day' - perhaps some do - but the majority earn much much less.

Some locals (working for those 'big' companies) also earn good salaries - how else could they afford the shiny new 4wd's they drive to work ?

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19 Anonymous January 10 2013, 04:59
I am sorry, but I think that what you wrote is @beatiful-true@ lie.
If I were you, I never staying to work in foreign country, I will work at my land, where I was born.The reason is only GOOD money, best plays to EARN money and that's ALL, and satisfy your "entertainment" by usual people, their's daugthers, sisters.
Hypocrisy in your words.
You can not find true, because LIE gives birth to LIE. Your material needs will never ENDs. Ask yourself and may be your hart tells you something.
Day of reckoning will come, baloon of patience increase.





[quote]Anonymous
The comments can be found on various expat websites and tripadvisor.

The article is very sad and does not reflect well on expats. Comments regarding the lack of food types is quite ridiculous when these expats should have experience of working in places like Lagos and Riyadh, these expats should not be here.

We can not deny some of the things in the article were true although I feel that some of the comments in the Russian version are ridiculous. I was the only single expat who worked for my small company and I was often the object of ridicule from Kazakh men for not taking 'advantage' while other non-single expats did, so I do sense some hypocrisy, was there some ulterior motive to this? However, I had the respect to not hassle the girls from traditional families nor entertain girls who were simply interested in my wallet.

I worked hard 8-9 months a year, 7 days a week both offshore and onshore and to train and develop the local staff to do a very specialist job, I did not own the company, I was just an employee. Failing an allowance for working away, I was paid less than the local staff. I did not have time for a social life in Atyrau and because my company was small I had to rely on local taxis and lived on my own in a privately rented apartment block with other Kazakh families. I did my best to develop the office so responsibility could be transferred to the locals and that I could leave, hoping that more work could be acquire

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20 * * * January 10 2013, 09:08
Deleted by moderator.

21 Anonymous January 10 2013, 09:16
как не крути но я думаю что не правы местные нету единства бесполезно страна трещит по швам не за горами казахская весна жалко детей ну а если погибнут только твари я за переворот в стране
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22 Anonymous January 10 2013, 12:32
Anonymous
What was so wrong with what I did? Unlike people who come to places like England with no qualifications and live off government hand outs because they have no job, I thought I as a guest in your country I was makin


Those people who come to UK are mainly from Commonwealth countries, i.e. from countries that used to be colonies of Great British Empire which colonised 1/4 of the earth. The countires like India, Jamaica, SAR etc. Europeans have caused a lot of suffering to these former colonies historically and still the situation is not much better nowadays. Only instead of armies and soldiers we now have multinational companies draining these countries' natural resources and supporting corrupt governments. Don't you think that those people from that how you call 3rd World Countries deserve some justice.

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23 Anonymous January 10 2013, 19:47
Let us also dispel the myth that expats all earn 'a 1000 $'s a day' - perhaps some do - but the majority earn much much less.

That's the normal salary and you wouldn't come from UK or US being offered less than that. I am not talking about guys from India or other Asian/African countries.

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24 Anonymous January 10 2013, 20:21
How do you know that's the normal salary ? Do you or your friends work in HR ? Dealing with confidential information (bad boy or bad girl then)?

Or just good Atyrau gossip to wind up the expat hate machine ?

Many expat staff working directly (not contractors) for eni or Shell or Chevron or Total do not earn that amount - fact !

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25 Anonymous January 11 2013, 09:11
Nursultan Abishevich, can hear their speak???
25   19

26 Anonymous January 11 2013, 10:07
Anonymous
How do you know that's the normal salary ? Do you or your friends work in HR ? Dealing with confidential information (bad boy or bad girl then)?

Or just good Atyrau gossip to wind up the expat hate machine ?

Many expat staff working directly (not contractors) for eni or Shell or Chevron or Total do not earn that amount - fact !


OK then cmon, enlighten us with information from direct source, how much do you earn for example?
Once I've seen this kind of confidential information from the email conversation of an employee in our company and recruiting company. And his salary was like 400-500 British pounds a day, working by shifts 28/28. Ordinary citizen in this city not working for oil company can hardly earn 500 pounds in a months. OK that expat employee was from high level staff like supervisor. But comparing pay levels of our local managers and ordinary staff there is no much difference in their salaries. And now guess how much other ordinary expatriates earn compared to us locals. I know this information because I have access to all departments' data in our company.

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27 Anonymous January 12 2013, 06:42
Кто ты такой, давай досвидания!
Anonymous
как не крути но я думаю что не правы местные нету единства бесполезно страна трещит по швам не за горами казахская весна жалко детей ну а если погибнут только твари я за переворот в стране

25   19

28 Anonymous January 12 2013, 06:44
I 100% agree with the reply provided.

Anonymous
Anonymous
What was so wrong with what I did? Unlike people who come to places like England with no qualifications and live off government hand outs because they have no job, I thought I as a guest in your country I was makin

Those people who come to UK are mainly from Commonwealth countries, i.e. from countries that used to be colonies of Great British Empire which colonised 1/4 of the earth. The countires like India, Jamaica, SAR etc. Europeans have caused a lot of suffering to these former colonies historically and still the situation is not much better nowadays. Only instead of armies and soldiers we now have multinational companies draining these countries' natural resources and supporting corrupt governments. Don't you think that those people from that how you call 3rd World Countries deserve some justice.

24   22

29 Anonymous January 12 2013, 06:51
Hey expat guys we are sharing information how much you are getting montly, and how much uplift bonuses you are getting working in such good country compare with other African and/or Asian countries with maleria and other disasters like pirats and kidnapping.
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30 Anonymous January 12 2013, 13:41
I would like to say thank you to my former manager, she was example for me, like queen Elizabeth, she never shouted on me, she always spoke in calm way and was very, very kind. Yes, she was expat, she gave me a lot, showing how people should behave to each other. She was professional, she teached me and my colleages a lot. Now she in works in Africa. I am very happy that i met her. Her salary was higher than mine in 10 times, may be 20 times, but money doesn't matter so much as relationships. Local lady.
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